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Author Topic: Road To Oblivion Feedback  (Read 3823 times)

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Qwertus

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Road To Oblivion Feedback
« on: January 11, 2011, 01:29:19 PM »
I've played most of the way through the game and I've found some bugs/balance issues, but first I just want to check something:
I downloaded the game and unzipped it, then I downloaded the update and unzipped it into the same folder, overwriting anything when prompted. But when I then ran the game, the version number in the corner of the menu still said v1.60r . I'm guessing the update just doesn't affect the version number for some reason, but I wanted to check that it wasn't a problem with installing the update before I reported a load of bugs that you had already fixed.

Otherwise, it's generally been fun to play, so congratulations on finishing it.

Qwertus
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AngelSpirit

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Re: Road To Oblivion Feedback
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2011, 10:52:08 AM »
Ah, I must have forgotten that.  Yes, it should be fine; I must have simply forgotten to change the version number.

If you've found any bugs, please report them to me so I can get them fixed asap.

And thanks for the comment!
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Qwertus

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Re: Road To Oblivion Feedback
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2011, 11:24:17 AM »
OK, well I may be forgetting some and I haven't finished it yet, so I may edit later.

1. In the third campaign, all the guardian boss levels (but not Oblivion) started with only a few seconds on the timer, causing the level to end almost immediately. This didn't happen on one occasion when I didn't place any points but I don't know if that's a coincidence or not, I may investigate again later.

2. The last campaign was FAR too easy. I put all the starting Cache for each level into points and quickly built up even more cache throughout the level until I was at the point where I was placing all the points at L7 at the start and still had a million or so cache left. I haven't finished the last campaign yet, but I can't imagine it can become difficult. Also, some levels are maybe a little too long, but it's difficult to judge because of the low difficulty.

3. On one level the text goes half a line or so off the screen. I've noticed that in general the text is much longer than in ID, maybe it needs shortening a little? I think sometimes a plot point is repeated more than is needed in one lot of text.

4. Maybe you could automate the L27 fix? I don't know if the ID source makes that easy. Have you tried giving up and just creating an entirely different level to try and remove whatever is breaking it? I appreciate that is quite a lot of work.

5. The version number not changing, as you said.

6. Oblivion got a little dull - it's so tough that you end up spending several minutes just performing charge attacks on it, or watching your points wear away its health. I don't think it was actually very difficult though - there seemed to be plenty of path left after killing it. Because of this, the music loops a few too many times as well. The music is certainly good boss music, but it doesn't really sound much like ID - the atmosphere is kind of different

7. The difficulty seemed to be set to 100 sometimes after a level. This does mean that some of my testing was done at 30 difficulty and some at 100.

8. I'm not at all sure about this, but maybe Pride point is now a little underpowered? I sometimes found that other points at similar levels were more effective, even when the path layout was ideal for Pride.

I don't want to sound too critical though - none of these spoil the game, and the new Oblivion point fits in nicely. I feel it is a bit dull against a boss though - you place it, wear the boss down to -300 then sell it. Also, should Hate points affect the sap amount? I can see why maybe they shouldn't, but I just wanted to check that this is intentional

Thanks for all the effort you've put in, hopefully more people will download it soon

Qwertus
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AngelSpirit

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Re: Road To Oblivion Feedback
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2011, 06:09:51 PM »
OK, well I may be forgetting some and I haven't finished it yet, so I may edit later.

1. In the third campaign, all the guardian boss levels (but not Oblivion) started with only a few seconds on the timer, causing the level to end almost immediately. This didn't happen on one occasion when I didn't place any points but I don't know if that's a coincidence or not, I may investigate again later.

2. The last campaign was FAR too easy. I put all the starting Cache for each level into points and quickly built up even more cache throughout the level until I was at the point where I was placing all the points at L7 at the start and still had a million or so cache left. I haven't finished the last campaign yet, but I can't imagine it can become difficult. Also, some levels are maybe a little too long, but it's difficult to judge because of the low difficulty.

3. On one level the text goes half a line or so off the screen. I've noticed that in general the text is much longer than in ID, maybe it needs shortening a little? I think sometimes a plot point is repeated more than is needed in one lot of text.

4. Maybe you could automate the L27 fix? I don't know if the ID source makes that easy. Have you tried giving up and just creating an entirely different level to try and remove whatever is breaking it? I appreciate that is quite a lot of work.

5. The version number not changing, as you said.

6. Oblivion got a little dull - it's so tough that you end up spending several minutes just performing charge attacks on it, or watching your points wear away its health. I don't think it was actually very difficult though - there seemed to be plenty of path left after killing it. Because of this, the music loops a few too many times as well. The music is certainly good boss music, but it doesn't really sound much like ID - the atmosphere is kind of different

7. The difficulty seemed to be set to 100 sometimes after a level. This does mean that some of my testing was done at 30 difficulty and some at 100.

8. I'm not at all sure about this, but maybe Pride point is now a little underpowered? I sometimes found that other points at similar levels were more effective, even when the path layout was ideal for Pride.

I don't want to sound too critical though - none of these spoil the game, and the new Oblivion point fits in nicely. I feel it is a bit dull against a boss though - you place it, wear the boss down to -300 then sell it. Also, should Hate points affect the sap amount? I can see why maybe they shouldn't, but I just wanted to check that this is intentional

Thanks for all the effort you've put in, hopefully more people will download it soon

Qwertus

Thanks for taking the time to submit feedback!

1) I must have missed that during my last testing run.  It's one of the prevalent problems that I know I fixed multiple times, yet it always shows back up again.

2) I noticed that too, the tremendous amounts of cache you get kind of ruin it.  However, note that Road To Oblivion is intended to be played at anywhere from 60~90 difficulty.  I myself did all the playtesting runs on 100 difficulty, so I thought it was okay.

3) That only happens in the last level of the third campaign, where you fight Oblivion.  The text as already been shortened--several times, but I think you're right in that many of the same storyline points are repeated.

4) Due to the nature of the code, no, I cannot do that.  And simply recreating the path does not work--I've tried multiple times.
Think of it this way:
Each path in the game is given an index to identify it; that is, the first path is given index 0, the second index 1, the third index 2, etc.  The game loads the paths through these indexes, not the actual path names (e.g."path27").
The problem is that index 27 is missing. And for whatever reason, when I try to recreate index 27, Game Maker refuses to do so and instead creates index 102.  So in short, there's a missing index, but no way to replace the missing index.

5) I'll fix the version number, I promise.  It shouldn't take me 5 seconds, but I keep forgetting.

6) The easiest way to do that would be to double its speed but halve its health, making the level go faster, but still retain the same difficulty.  And yes, it is fairly easy--it just takes time.

7) That's a side-effect of something I should probably fix. It's caused by the difficulty for the boss levels being automatically set at 100, overwriting whatever value was there before.

8 ) I believe I reduced the Pride attack growth by about 20%, and decreased its "critical" damage by 4%.  The reason that it's lowered though, is because in the bonus campaign, Pride can reach 999,999 damage with only 4 or 5 kills, which made it pretty ridiculous.

The thing about the Oblivion Point is true--it has no use once the boss is at -300 defense, other than its redirection properties.  One idea that I've been juggling around with is to have it reduce less defense every time it hits the same enemy; for instance, it could reduce 50 with the first hit, 45 with the second, 40 with the third, etc.

The points highlighted in bold are ones I will make sure to fix in the next update, which should come in a few days or so.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 06:40:23 PM by AngelSpirit »
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Qwertus

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Re: Road To Oblivion Feedback
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2011, 10:16:02 AM »
Oops. When I said Pride, I meant Courage. Pride has actually been very useful. The computer I was using is currently being rebuilt and we're having problems, so I may have to redownload it and start again. I may try going through on 100 difficulty and see what the last campaign is like.
Edit: Another idea regarding oblivion: how about allowing bosses to regenerate defence?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 10:21:15 AM by Qwertus »
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AngelSpirit

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Re: Road To Oblivion Feedback
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2011, 08:41:33 PM »
I'll assume that by "oblivion" you mean the Oblivion boss, not the Point.

That's easily possible.  But the boss already starts at 100 defense; later it gets increased to 256 as part of Oblivion's "true power", and then about another minute later it gets cut all the way down to -44.  It's probably a good idea to have it slowly climb back up, as -44 is a bit low for defense; but keep in mind that the bosses in Road To Oblivion are made to be won.  People's patience with boss enemies will only go so far, before they just quit and go do something else.  For this reason, the bosses are made to appear challenging, but actually be pretty easy.

The Courage Point was, in my opinion, too strong in Immortal Defense.  I hence lowered it down slightly, but I didn't think it would have too much of an effect.  It's been buffed back up now.

The next update will be released on Sunday.
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Re: Road To Oblivion Feedback
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2011, 04:15:23 AM »
No, I meant that to make the Oblivion point more interesting against bosses in general, maybe they should regenerate the defence it saps. I wasn't suggesting making them harder - they would need a bit of rebalancing to keep the difficulty right. I didn't realise oblivion's defence changed during the level, but it could still work if you take the value its defence is currently set at as the maximum it can regenerate defence to.

How exactly does defence work? I don't think ID ever really explained.
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AngelSpirit

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Re: Road To Oblivion Feedback
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2011, 07:15:32 AM »
Ah, nevermind then.  That could be plausible, to have the enemies regenerate defense lost.  I'll look into it.

As far as defense calculations work, I haven't dissected the code yet, but to my best knowledge, this is how it works:

Defense is applied as a percentage reduction, x/256%, where x is the defense value.  A defense of 256 means that the monster takes no damage from all attacks (excluding those that ignore defense).  Similarly, a defense of 128 means that the monster takes 128/256% damage, or 50%.

Negative defense works differently.  How differently I'm not sure, but negative defense, even at just -1, increases damage received hugely.
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Qwertus

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Re: Road To Oblivion Feedback
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2011, 08:22:48 AM »
One more thing: The second mission of the first campaign starts instantly with no time to place points, even though the player now has a Fear Point available. This must be left over from the original campaign, where the player still didn't have points.
Also, I have a small idea for giving points a bit more personality: how about having them sometimes comment when an enemy gets through? I've always liked the way they talk to you when they reach kill thresholds or another point becomes available, and this would extend that a bit. I've got some ideas for what the different points might say, if you're interested.
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AngelSpirit

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Re: Road To Oblivion Feedback
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2011, 09:11:58 AM »
That's a small issue, so it won't be fixed immediately--probably when the next update comes out.  And the next update probably won't come out until a game-breaking bug is found that needs to be fixed.

The idea of having Points say something when an enemy escapes is interesting; if you want to attempt to write lines for them, keep in mind a few things:
* The speech should coincide with the personality of the Point.  i.e. Love should seem happy and hopeful; Courage should appear bold and invigorating, etc.
* There should be 4-7 unique phrases per Point.  The reason being that the game chooses the phrases randomly, and it would seem odd to the player if the same phrase was to be said over and over.
* Try to keep the length to under 30 characters per phrase.  Any longer and it becomes difficult to read, especially given how quickly the text disappears from the screen.

If you're still willing to give it a shot, reply or PM me and I'll see what necessary code changes need to be done.
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Qwertus

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Re: Road To Oblivion Feedback
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2011, 10:41:36 AM »
I already had those requirements in mind, so I'm still willing. 30 characters is a bit limiting - I thought some of the original point messages were longer, but maybe I'm remembering wrong. Anyway, I can still do it, and I'll PM you the list when I've got enough.

EDIT: PMs are disabled, so I'll have to post the list here.

Lines marked "L" are special comments intended to be said when only one life remains. The number in brackets is the number of characters in the line.

Fear

1 - Help! (5)
2 - I'm useless. (12)
3 - Are they fearless? (18)
4 - I fear myself. (14)
5 - All is lost! (12)
6 - No! (3)
L - The end is nigh! (16)

Courage

1 - A setback! But don't lose heart. (31)
2 - Once more unto the breach! (26)
3 - A challenge! (12)
4 - We shall hold firm! (19)
5 - Victory is yet within reach. (28)
6 - Fail once, win twice. (21)
L - Blaze! Blaze with courage! (26)

Ortho

1 - An unexpected result. (21)
2 - I have miscalculated. (21)
3 - Beware! Failure multiplies. (27)
5 - That was improbable. (21)
6 - Each mistake comes but once. (28)
7 - Was that a bluff? (17)
L - We've no margin for error. (26)

Cut

1 - One escapes? It is the last. (28)
2 - I shall not fail! (17)
3 - They cut me, as I cut them. (27)
4 - Wound me, and I am sharper. (27)
5 - They pierce through. (20)
L - We balance on a knife's edge. (29)

Limited

1 - An inevitable failure. (22)
2 - We are imperfect. So are they. (31)
3 - Damage is limited. (19)
4 - I understand failure. (21)
5 - Now we know our weakness. (25)
L - At last, we reach our limit. (28)

Hate

1 - I hate to lose. (15)
2 - Are you any use at all? (23)
3 - What a stupid path. (19)
4 - I loathed to fight them. (24)
5 - An interesting approach... (26)
6 - Fools! You and them! (20)
7 - Hell beckons (12)
L - You've doomed yourself. (23)

Circuit

1 - We did not connect with them. (29)
2 - A loss shared, a loss halved. (29)
3 - They slip between us. (22)
4 - Another is needed. (18)
5 - The web breaks. (15)
6 - Victory and defeat - friends. (29)
L - One chance, between all. (24)

Pride

1 - They weren't worth killing. (27)
2 - That was your fault. (20)
3 - Impossible! (11)
4 - Who would flee from me? (23)
5 - That did not happen. (20)
L - Is this my downfall? (20)

Oblivion

1 - One day, they will be mine. (27)
2 - They think they have won. (25)
3 - None escape untouched. (22)
4 - All paths end in me. (22)
5 - They cannot run from eternity. (30)
L - I shall fall into myself. (25)

Turning

1 - I'm losing! Great! (18)
2 - Ha! Who cares? (14)
3 - Those who win miss the point. (29)
4 - Oops! (5)
5 - Where did they go? (18)
6 - The stars dim. (14)
7 - So that's where they go. (24)
L - A sole star shines. (19)

Danmaku

1 - Loss is part of the pattern. (28)
2 - I fail, and see a little more. (30)
3 - A loose thread. (15)
4 - Their victory is a part of me. (30)
L - One thread remains, of gold. (28)
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 12:51:33 PM by Qwertus »
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Qwertus

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Re: Road To Oblivion Feedback
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2011, 09:15:28 AM »
Any progress on this? I've just realised that it might not have shown a new post, since I edited my last one to add the phrases instead of posting again.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 08:33:10 AM by Qwertus »
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