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Author Topic: Interesting [That is to say, $23 is too much for this game.]  (Read 7752 times)

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Agret

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Interesting game you've got here, but $23USD? Pfft, may as well just buy Warcraft III and get tons of TD's and online play ::)

That is to say, $23 is too much for this game.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 09:20:29 PM by RinkuHero »
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RinkuHero

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Re: Interesting
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2007, 01:13:28 PM »
Yeah, but none of those TD's have a story, all of them use the same WC3 mechanics and feel similar in style and graphics, they all use the WC3 soundtrack, they're all just single-level rather than a continuous campaign, etc. -- so it's not really a good comparison. Those are mini-games rather than a game.

Generally, most people who think a price of something is too high wouldn't buy it at any price, so I think it's best to set it at the price most people who want to play through the game are willing to pay. Besides, shareware has to make back its hosting costs: it costs a me about a cent every time someone downloads the demo, and the e-commerce provider takes a percent of the sales, affiliates take another percent, with the result that if the price is too low it wouldn't even make back what I'm paying in hosting (especially because only 1 out of 100 people who downloads a demo typically buys the game), let alone the time spent in the game's creation (thousands of hours that could have been spent making money in other ways).
« Last Edit: June 02, 2007, 01:15:30 PM by RinkuHero »
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Agret

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Re: Interesting
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2007, 08:06:04 PM »
Try coral caching your links to the demo, just add .nyud.net:8080 to your hostname.

http://immortaldefense.s3.amazonaws.com/ImmortalDefenseDemoSetup-v1.0.exe
->
http://immortaldefense.s3.amazonaws.com.nyud.net:8080/ImmortalDefenseDemoSetup-v1.0.exe

It's supposed to cut down on hosting costs by caching popular files, you could also put it on a torrent.

None of those TD's have a story
Some of them do...

all of them use the same WC3 mechanics and feel similar in style and graphics
WC3 mechanics? There's some pretty good TDs... But yeah they all have a similar style I guess

they all use the WC3 soundtrack
Not all

they're all just single-level rather than a continuous campaign, etc. -- so it's not really a good comparison.
I guess not.

You should see if you can get your game onto Steam, http://www.steampowered.com/ they seem to support Indy game devs.
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RinkuHero

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Re: Interesting
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2007, 08:14:42 PM »
I haven't heard of coral caching, I'll look into it, thanks!

Hmm, the ones I've played haven't had their own story or soundtrack, anyway. But I admit there are probably some I missed, I haven't played WC3 in awhile. Could you link me to any story-based ones you know of, so I can try them out?

Steam is a possibility, but I'd prefer to wait until the game is as good as it can be before approaching them, I'll still be improving it for a few months; one company has approached us about doing an XBLA (Xbox Live Arcade) port too. Another option I intend to look into is Manifesto Games and similar portals (http://manifestogames.com).

Anyway, not everyone thinks it's too expensive, as it already has 3 sales after 2 days of release (which is pretty good for a soft release, and more than I expected). But most indie games, when you compare them to professional games, can't really compete for the same price by the standards of production values, it's the standards of originality / quirkiness that is the selling point usually.
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FyreWulff

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Re: Interesting
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2007, 03:46:47 AM »
23$ is 1/3rd the cost of a current generation game, or two trips to Burger King. Also, stores only sell the packed together version of Warcraft III which is 40-50$.
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glambourine

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Re: Interesting
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2007, 09:38:13 AM »
My friend Chris Schock posted a comment on my LJ about how this game would work well on XBLA.  Is that something feasible right now/in the next few months?
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RinkuHero

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Re: Interesting
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2007, 04:28:33 PM »
No idea, I've never worked on the XBLA and I don't own an Xbox 360; I'd doubt within the next few months, as it'd take longer than that to port, but it's possible within the year, maybe next year, though it depends on factors beyond my control (such as whether I can make a deal with a publisher who can do it, how hard it is to port for them, etc.).
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johnroth

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Re: Interesting
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2007, 01:07:17 PM »
I really don't think it's too much money.  In fact, I just bought it.  The plot is so intresting, and the gameplay is fun.  At least the game doesn't cost 50!

I also agree with putting this game on Steam when you get it to where you want it.  I browse games on there all the time.
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RinkuHero

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Re: Interesting
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2007, 02:29:20 PM »
Thanks!  ;D
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Shadestorm

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Re: Interesting
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2007, 03:40:40 PM »
I'd most definitely buy this game for $10-$15. I mean, I really liked it, but $23 felt like I was stretching my wallet a bit too much.
However, I read your wishlist thread, and I think it's safe to say that with the additions you propose, $23 is more than an acceptable price.
Particularily the level editor and improved graphics. Have you considered a multiplayer mode? With a partner taking on the role of Aa. That would be awesome.

With these additions I think this game would be worth even more than the current $23 price. However, as it stands, I would see this game as a diversion; a fun way to spend 3 or 4 hours. I'm impressed with what you've done, however, and will definitely follow your project until you raise the content level or lower the price.

Side note: e-commerce and affiliate programs take a percentage of your profits!? I don't know how much it is exactly, but man, that sounds like a bad investment. It seems like word-of-mouth and your other marketing strategies would be far more effective than you paying for hits with sales of your game! If it's been worth it, however, please tell. I'd be interested to know.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 03:52:51 PM by Shadestorm »
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RinkuHero

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Re: Interesting
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2007, 09:20:00 PM »
I may lower the price one day as an experiment eventually, perhaps after I release more games. I think that although it's too much for some people (particularly people people still in high school or college), many independent games have experimented with prices and found that 20-25$ is the only amount that really makes money -- if it sold for, say, 10$, it might sell slightly more (and it probably would not), but definately not twice as much, which would be required to offset the price.

There have been countless experiments that have shown this time after time. There have been hundreds of people who sold games for 10$ or 5$, raised the price to 20$ or 25$, and saw not only the total profit increase, but the number of sales increase.  I mentioned some examples here: http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showtopic=302008&view=findpost&p=2130749

There's a psychological effect too -- if a game's only 10$ or 5$, many people think of it as a cheap game that isn't worth buying, or some kind of scam.

I'm very happy with the current rate (averaging 2 sales a day) which is a lot higher than most indie games, and especially good for someone's first shareware game, and everything I know about the history of shareware games tells me I it won't go to 4 sales a day if I lowered the price. In other words, it's not about what the game is "worth", it's about what it will sell for.

Also, see the last part of this interview for how the writer of the game's story justifies the price: http://kingludic.blogspot.com/2007/06/q-with-immortal-defense-writer.html

The game takes more than 3-4 hours to finish (although maybe you mean the demo section), though I really need to put in a timer to measure total game time (the way the Final Fantasy games do). I think 6-12 hours is more accurate though, particularly because the latter levels tend to be a bit longer and require multiple re-tries before they can be finished.

I agree that the additions will be good, but I don't expect them to increase sales that much or make the game any more (or any less) "worth" its price. I just want to do them because I want to perfect the game before moving on to the next.

E-commerce services don't provide hits or marketing -- that's not what they are for. They operate as the "shopping cart" type of thing. Using an e-commerce system is necessary because it provides a number of services -- accepting credit cards being the main one. And without an e-commerce service there'd be a delay for a person getting the game until I can get to my email and give it to them manually, which would be annoying to both me and the customers. E-commerce services also provide an affiliate network (which allows other people to sell my game and get a percentage), identity fraud detection, and so on. 9.5% is actually pretty low too, most of them go for 10-15%. Although one bad part is they don't actually send us the money for 2 months (!).

EDIT: I edited the title of this thread to mention the topic (whether the price is too much), since "Interesting" wasn't very descriptive.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 09:45:37 PM by RinkuHero »
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Shadestorm

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Re: Interesting
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2007, 11:52:49 PM »
I think that although it's too much for some people (particularly people people still in high school or college).

Yes. That would be me.

many independent games have experimented with prices and found that 20-25$ is the only amount that really makes money.

Alright. I'll believe that. I guess I didn't realize you'd done so much research. Really, that's some very good information. I guess I'm just in the wrong demographic. :/
Anyway, 'grats to an awesome game. It sucks that I can't bring myself to fork over the dough, but I'll be following this until I can justify buying it.
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RinkuHero

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Re: Interesting [That is to say, $23 is too much for this game.]
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2007, 05:47:23 AM »
Don't forget that there's also a "link to the game and get half off" offer described on the buy page of the site -- you can post a link to the game on messageboards you visit that you think might be interested in the game, and if 15 people visit the site from your link I give you a discount code.
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Metal Spiral

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Re: Interesting [That is to say, $23 is too much for this game.]
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2007, 04:14:09 PM »
I agree that putting it on Steam or XBLA would be a good move. It would definitely bring more attention to the game.

Comparing ID to WC3 isn't really fair. Blizzard's been in business for a long time, so they have a strong foundation and can charge whatever they want (and they do).
Even so, while Blizzard may have a different scope than RPGC, it is still a competitor. This means you'll have to take actions so you can compete with them. Using Steam is good example (although ID may not be ready for it yet - that's not my call).

I don't think $23 is a bad price at this stage. Once it gets more attention and has gone through some updates, you can probably manage to reduce it some.
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glambourine

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Re: Interesting
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2007, 01:17:24 AM »
The game takes more than 3-4 hours to finish (although maybe you mean the demo section), though I really need to put in a timer to measure total game time (the way the Final Fantasy games do). I think 6-12 hours is more accurate though, particularly because the latter levels tend to be a bit longer and require multiple re-tries before they can be finished.

Man--it's probably taken me something like 15 hours so far (in campaign IV with the full version), but that's mostly because I'm not that good at the game/obsessively play earlier levels to boost cache.
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